Pilot Forum 737 Max

I've read what I could for months and have formed no firm conclusion. The pilots of the Ethiopian Airlines 737 MAX that crashed last His scenario is backed up by extracts from a 1982 Boeing 737-200 Pilot Training Manual posted to an online pilot forum a month. airlines flying Boeing's 737 MAX weren't trained about a key change to an automatic system that's been linked to the fatal crash of a Lion Air jet last month, according to. Two fatal crashes of Boeing 737 Max airplanes within five months took the lives of 346 people and grounded the fleet. Southwest Airlines' pilots are saying that the 737 MAX could, but not definitively, remain grounded with the airline until March, 2020. Southwest Airlines' pilots union has filed a lawsuit against Boeing for $100 million over lost wages from the grounding of 737 MAX jets in the wake of two crashes and a myriad of safety issues. Even if he had 200 hours all in the 737 max, it's almost nothing for flight time. After two Boeing 737 MAX 8 aircraft crashed in October 2018 and March 2019 causing 346 deaths, aviation authorities around the world grounded the 737 MAX series. Pilots for two U. It's very slippery. The pilot's inability, for whatever reason, to action the correct checklist is the reason why they weren't able to handle the emergency and land safely. The Southwest Airlines (NYSE:LUV) pilots union doesn't anticipate a return of the Boeing 737 Max until February at the earliest. HYSTERICAL SHRIEKING: In related news, the lead test pilot for the 737 Max claims to "suck at flying". What will be interesting to know is the amount of time he had on the MAX. And industry sources say the company is considering a software revision to the airplane's anti-stall autotrim system. Pilots need to be trained on MCAS which will means there need to be simulators available. Aviation authorities in Indonesia and India on Thursday pushed for more simulator training for Boeing Co 737 MAX pilots following the deadly Lion Air crash, while the world's largest planemaker. Given that American Airlines owns twentyfour 737 Max 8, that seems like a certain percentage. The grounding of the 737 MAX is one thing that is truly beyond the control of AA. With the 737 MAX you just have to think about energy management more because it just doesn't want to slow down in the air. aviation officials is that a bird strike caused erroneous input to set off the plane's autopilot system, Maneuvering Characteristics Augmentation System (MCAS), a source familiar with the situation told CNBC. Since the Indonesia crash, Boeing has been working on a software update for the 737 Max jets, expected by April. Pilots who reached out to the regulatory agency described technical issues remarkably similar to the problems. CLEVELAND, Ohio - A veteran airline pilot with expertise in the Boeing 737 Max 8 and 9 aircraft, which has been involved in two crashes within five months, said that in his opinion the planes. The Federal Aviation Administration had for days. Here's the terrifying reason Boeing's 737 MAX 8 is grounded across the globe Pilots are outraged that Boeing did not properly inform them of a program that can wrench control of an aircraft from. That was the latest news on German TV. An Ethiopian Airlines Boeing 737 heading to the Kenyan capital Nairobi has crashed near Addis Ababa, the airline said on Sunday morning. Several Pilots repeatedly warned federal authorities of safety concerns over the now-grounded Boeing 737 Max 8 for months leading up to the second deadly disaster involving the plane, according to an investigation by the Dallas Morning News. 737 pilots are trained to disable the stability trim system in a runaway trim situation. The union president of Southwest Airlines pilots worries that Boeing may be rushing the 737 Max back into service, and he says Southwest should consider buying planes from another company. My understanding from reading comments from pilots who fly the Max aircraft on another site is that the larger and heavier engines on the Max planes sit further forward on the wing, and there was concern about stall risk increasing, so Boeing added an automated system that would force the nose down when the plane sensed a stall was imminent. And with the 'conversion' from some earlier 737 types to 737 max being as simple and CHEAP as possible, little more than a session on an iPad according to one pilot, with no simulator time 'required' being one of Boeing's main selling points, just how many pilots would have trained on a 737 Max specific simulator anyway?. Learn more here http://www. What does a 737 Max pilot think. As much as I think AA is a poorly run company, the grounding of the 737 MAX is a Boeing issue. The Allied Pilots Union is accusing American of not allowing their experts from testing out the proposed software fix - but American says they will get simulator time once the airframe software systems are certified. On Monday Oct. However the 737 Max remains grounded while crews fly. Doomed 737 MAX's pilots apparently followed Boeing's emergency directions and he is backed up by extracts from a 1982 Boeing 737-200 Pilot Training Manual posted to an online pilot forum a. This was the backup trim system for all of the B707, 727, and 737 aircraft which all have long records of operating safely. I flew 707s 737 200/400/800 NG and was airtest pilot on them in UK and at Boeing. Boeing pilots messages on 737 MAX safety raise new questions By David Shepardson FILE PHOTO: Unpainted Boeing 737 MAX aircraft are seen parked in an aerial photo at Renton Municipal Airport near the Boeing Renton facility in Renton, Washington, U. On the ground. Google "Pilots complained several times about 737 MAX problems before latest crash". Home Forums > Pilot's Lounge > Hangar Hi i was searching online for a 737 max fcom i can't find it anywhere only the 700 800 900 is online if someone has a pdf. Johnson and David Shepardson The Boeing logo is pictured at the Latin American Business Aviation Conference & Exhibition fair (LABACE) at Congonhas Airport in Sao Paulo, Brazil August 14, 2018. A Boeing pilot working on the 737 MAX said in messages from 2016 that a new automated system was making the plane difficult to control in flight simulators, more than two years before it was grounded following two deadly crashes. This is not a forum for general and another Boeing pilot. All aboard were killed. Given that American Airlines owns twentyfour 737 Max 8, that seems like a certain percentage. Two fatal crashes of Boeing 737 Max airplanes within five months took the lives of 346 people and grounded the fleet. The other half of my family flies the B737 (including MAX) so I am (somewhat) familiar. 737 MAX grounded Welcome to Airline Pilot Forums - Connect and get the inside scoop on Airline Companies If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ. Doomed 737 MAX's pilots apparently followed Boeing's emergency directions and he is backed up by extracts from a 1982 Boeing 737-200 Pilot Training Manual posted to an online pilot forum a. A Boeing pilot who tested the 737 Max jet in flight simulators in 2016 admitted in a series of text messages that he lied to the Federal Aviation Administration regarding the plane's performance. For unexplained reasons—probably because the pilots were overwhelmed trying to deal with the runaway trim—the flight director, power setting, and. Aviation authorities in Indonesia and India on Thursday pushed for more simulator training for Boeing Co 737 MAX pilots following the deadly Lion Air crash, while the world's largest planemaker. At @ 28 min one lawyer displays an anonymous email from a 737 MAX pilot detailing how the MCAS system can thwart a pilot's ability to recover control of the jet. Only thing is, alpha floor is disabled below a certain RA (100'? 80'? I have to look it up). Mike Michaelis, chairman of the safety committee of the Allied Pilots Association (APA) at American Airlines, sent out a message to pilots informing them of details Boeing had shared with the airline about this new 737 MAX system — called MCAS (Maneuvering Characteristics Augmentation System). They told authorities about control issues, and were confused about its systems. As much as I think AA is a poorly run company, the grounding of the 737 MAX is a Boeing issue. "Data from the jetliner that crashed into the Java Sea last month shows the pilots fought to save the plane almost from the moment it took off, as the Boeing 737's nose was repeatedly forced down, apparently by an automatic system receiving incorrect sensor readings. Graver, it was news to the Pilots flying the MAX since 18 months as well. The Southwest Airlines (NYSE:LUV) pilots union doesn't anticipate a return of the Boeing 737 Max until February at the earliest. TheAirlinePilots. A troubling new report from Politico reveals that flight crews filed at least five separate reports with the FAA, complaining about issues with the controls of Boeing 737 MAX 8 aircraft. Search this forum only. , FAA Says The announcement Wednesday afternoon follows decisions by many other countries to ground the planes in the wake of Sunday's deadly. I reject that reality! The reason the max has this problem to begin with is their emulation of Airbus with the MCAS system. Southwest Airlines' pilots union has filed a lawsuit against Boeing for $100 million over lost wages from the grounding of 737 MAX jets in the wake of two crashes and a myriad of safety issues. Neither AA nor WN are pulling the Max 8 and their pilots have no hesitation flying them, but their pilots have been fully recertified with the new EAD for the Max 8 since the end of January - but the 737-700 is a much older and different aircraft. The other half of my family flies the B737 (including MAX) so I am (somewhat) familiar. As for the MAX, my understanding is the NG's (700/800/900) are due to end production some time this year, presumably in favor of the MAX. To accomplish this, pilots of all experience levels are invited to apply. Is this pilots report from back in early 2017, referring to the MCAS control? "with as much as 58,000 lb. Doomed 737 MAX's Pilots Apparently Followed Boeing's Emergency Directions and he is backed up by extracts from a 1982 Boeing 737-200 Pilot Training Manual posted to an online pilot forum a. Boeing's initial logic was that an MCAS failure would present to the pilot the same as runaway trim, so the pilot would just do what they were already trained to do in a runaway trim situation. Based on the existing test data for cold temperatures at the time, engineers advised against a launch, but administrators using the same data, argued in favor of the launch. As much as I think AA is a poorly run company, the grounding of the 737 MAX is a Boeing issue. "It doesn't move any primary controls," and MCAS doesn't function when the autopilot is active. Two months later, I still have not received any compensation nor have I gotten any answers from Westjet about how and why they put their passengers in such a dangerous aircraft. In the claim, AAL. Then in late June FAA pilots uncovered a data processing issue impacting their ability to perform the procedure for counteracting "runaway stabiliser. I'm sure its probably been discussed at nauseam, but is the MAX upgrade to the 737 enough to warrant PMDG to deploy resources to develop a MAX? All this talk about the MAX in the news recently got me wishing I could transition out of the NGX and into an MAXX. Figure 3: 737 MAX Primary Flight Display. The Federal Aviation Administration had for days. The theory suspected by U. The union for Southwest Airlines Co. As for the MAX, my understanding is the NG's (700/800/900) are due to end production some time this year, presumably in favor of the MAX. Boeing 737 Max Planes Temporarily Grounded In U. But the company and the Federal Aviation Administration face new questions over whether there should have been more pilot training as airlines added the new models to their fleets. A Boeing pilot working on the 737 MAX said in messages from 2016 that a new automated system was making the plane difficult to control in flight simulators, more than two years before it was grounded following two deadly crashes. Max death 737: FAA asks Boeing why it hid test pilot's discovery of 'egregious' 737 Max issues Discussion in 'Current Events' started by Denizen, Oct 18, 2019. In a transcript of instant messages between two employees, the 737 Max's then chief technical pilot, Mark Forkner, said the so-called MCAS anti-stall system in the airplane was "running rampant. Boeing Meets With Pilot Unions On MAX Questions PAUL BERTORELLI Attempting to tamp down pilot concerns about its 737 MAX following the Lion Air crash, Boeing technical representatives met with at least two pilot unions this week. Boeing's initial logic was that an MCAS failure would present to the pilot the same as runaway trim, so the pilot would just do what they were already trained to do in a runaway trim situation. (which is pretty much out of the question, my being aged 57), I would currently fly a Boeing 737-860 MAX, despite the current situation, as I have said above, I do not. 2%) is sharply criticized by the head of the Southwest Airlines (LUV-0. This system is not unique to the MAX or even the larger 737 fleet. According to an Aviation article, "Ethiopian MAX Crash Simulator Scenario Stuns Pilots," current 737 MAX pilots, as part of a recurrent training simulator, attempted to emulate the same. A Year in the Life of a Boeing 737 Pilot Bravo Delta 737. The pilot's inability, for whatever reason, to action the correct checklist is the reason why they weren't able to handle the emergency and land safely. Based on the existing test data for cold temperatures at the time, engineers advised against a launch, but administrators using the same data, argued in favor of the launch. Only thing is, alpha floor is disabled below a certain RA (100'? 80'? I have to look it up). A troubling new report from Politico reveals that flight crews filed at least five separate reports with the FAA, complaining about issues with the controls of Boeing 737 MAX 8 aircraft. A day before the Lion 737 Max crashed an off duty Lion Air Pilot hitched a ride on the 737 Max and sat in the cockpit (in the jump seat) with the pilot and copilot. In a transcript of instant messages between two employees, the 737 Max's then chief technical pilot, Mark Forkner, said the so-called MCAS anti-stall system in the airplane was "running rampant. of thrust available from engines mounted well below the center of gravity, there is pronounced thrust-versus-pitch coupling at low speeds, especially with aft center of gravity (CG) and at light gross weights. The pilot will always be able to override the flight control law using electric trim or manual trim. zeke wrote:7BOEING7 wrote:It wasn't put in the FCOM because it was expected that most 737MAX pilots would never be in a position to see it function, ever!!! Most airline pilots will never see an engine failure either, or for that matter the majority of the procedures in FCOM. Trump says FAA will ground Boeing 737 Max 8, 737 Max 9 planes following deadly Ethiopian Airlines crash. 's 737 MAX jetliners back in the air have been delayed in part by concerns about whether the average pilot has enough physical strength to turn a manual crank in extreme emergencies. As a Chief Technical Pilot you will perform as a chief technical consultant on the 747. A Boeing pilot who tested the 737 Max jet in flight simulators in 2016 admitted in a series of text messages that he lied to the Federal Aviation Administration regarding the plane's performance. airlines flying Boeing's 737 MAX weren't trained about a key change to an automatic system that's been linked to the fatal crash of a Lion Air jet last month, according to. Johnson and David Shepardson The Boeing logo is pictured at the Latin American Business Aviation Conference & Exhibition fair (LABACE) at Congonhas Airport in Sao Paulo, Brazil August 14, 2018. Former senior Boeing (BA +1. American Airlines pilots' union chief Daniel Carey, who also testified Wednesday, said earlier that Boeing made mistakes in its design of the 737 MAX and not telling pilots about new flight control software. com is a resource of information to the airline pilots and provides a forum to share Flying The Boeing 737 53 topics 737-300 Econ, Max Angle. But here in this forum, we are able to learn more. The plane, a Boeing 737-800MAX with flight number ET 302, lost contact soon after taking off at 08:38 am local time from Bole International Airport in the Ethiopian capital, the airline said in a statement. If pilots approve of the changes, Boeing will use the data to seek FAA recertification. "The aircraft's grounding is now causing SWAPA pilots to lose millions of dollars each month because the 737 Max was removed from Southwest's flight schedule, and from SWAPA pilots' paychecks as. Southwest Airlines' pilots are saying that the 737 MAX could, but not definitively, remain grounded with the airline until March, 2020. An Ethiopian Airlines Boeing 737 heading to the Kenyan capital Nairobi has crashed near Addis Ababa, the airline said on Sunday morning. Southwest Airlines' pilots union has filed a lawsuit against Boeing for $100 million over lost wages from the grounding of 737 MAX jets in the wake of two crashes and a myriad of safety issues. Most recently, a friend of mine flew AA on a 737, and had asked the pilots on a visit to the cockpit prior to pushback about the whole MAX situation and their thoughts, the captain hadn't yet flown the MAX but the F/O did, saying that it was a very complicated and tragic situation but that the MAX itself is a great airplane, just like the NG, and that anything new is always nice. Those simulators need to be certified as well! I would be surprised if anybody is willing or capable of putting a 737 MAX into the air without all modifications and crew properly trained. Finally, a well written (by a pilot) article about 3rd world pilots and the 737 Max. 737 MAX grounded Welcome to Airline Pilot Forums - Connect and get the inside scoop on Airline Companies If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ. The existence of the messages strike at a central part of Boeing's defense over how the plane was certified to fly. That timeframe is later than the hopes of Boeing, but perhaps. They told authorities about control issues, and were confused about its systems. The pilots of the Ethiopian Airlines 737 MAX that crashed last month appear to have followed the emergency procedure laid out by both Boeing and the Federal Aviation Administration — cutting off the suspect flight-control system — but could not regain control and avert the plunge that killed all 157 on board. He said they were cruising along in level flight, all trimmed out and just normal flight when the noise started to point down because of the anti-stall system. The Jump-Seat Pilot And The Boeing 737 Max (He Saved The Plane That Later Crashed) Stop The Madness is VIP+ Member Support this group and join the ads-free movement to make online forums a better place. In the claim, AAL. Feedback Forum Consumer Southwest pilots sue Boeing over lost wages in 737 MAX grounding The lawsuit alleges the Southwest pilots agreed to fly the 737 MAX because Boeing said it was. Two fatal crashes of Boeing 737 Max airplanes within five months took the lives of 346 people and grounded the fleet. This was the backup trim system for all of the B707, 727, and 737 aircraft which all have long records of operating safely. As a Chief Technical Pilot you will perform as a chief technical consultant on the 747. After two Boeing 737 MAX 8 aircraft crashed in October 2018 and March 2019 causing 346 deaths, aviation authorities around the world grounded the 737 MAX series. Those that were flying would be a lot safer. Neither AA nor WN are pulling the Max 8 and their pilots have no hesitation flying them, but their pilots have been fully recertified with the new EAD for the Max 8 since the end of January - but the 737-700 is a much older and different aircraft. A great piece of journalism by ba former pilot who turned to. What contribution, if any, the lockup — known as a mistrim — played in the Ethiopian crash is unclear, but the revelation of a long-standing design issue adds a fresh layer of complexity into the investigations and what guidance and training was provided to 737 Max pilots to recover from an erroneous activation of the MCAS system. LE BOURGET, France—Efforts to get Boeing Co. Last week, the pilot union of American Airlines Group, or AAL. The Southwest Airlines (NYSE:LUV) pilots union doesn't anticipate a return of the Boeing 737 Max until February at the earliest. This can interfere with pilots' longtime training that pulling back on the control yoke raises a plane's nose, putting the plane into a climb. For unexplained reasons—probably because the pilots were overwhelmed trying to deal with the runaway trim—the flight director, power setting, and. July 1, 2019. The US-based plane maker Boeing was hit with a class-action lawsuit filed Friday, seeking millions of dollars in damages in favor of over 400 pilots trained to fly the 737 MAX, ABC News report says. The other half of my family flies the B737 (including MAX) so I am (somewhat) familiar. Aviation authorities in Indonesia and India on Thursday pushed for more simulator training for Boeing Co 737 MAX pilots following the deadly Lion Air crash, while the world's largest planemaker. This was a 4-month old 737 Max 8, and Ethiopian has a very good reputation for safety. The pilot, Mark Forkner, complained that the system known as MCAS was causing him trouble. US Pilots Reported Problems With Boeing 737 MAX AFP Forum / 12:14 AM March 16, 2019 At least four US pilots filed reports following the October crash of a Lion Air flight in Indonesia shortly after takeoff and all complained the aircraft suddenly pitched downward, according to documents reviewed by AFP on a flight safety database. Two months later, I still have not received any compensation nor have I gotten any answers from Westjet about how and why they put their passengers in such a dangerous aircraft. Southwest Airlines' pilots are saying that the 737 MAX could, but not definitively, remain grounded with the airline until March, 2020. Watch the elegance and power of Boeing's 737 MAX as it maneuvers through the air for this incredible air to air video shoot. As for the MAX, my understanding is the NG's (700/800/900) are due to end production some time this year, presumably in favor of the MAX. After two Boeing 737 MAX 8 aircraft crashed in October 2018 and March 2019 causing 346 deaths, aviation authorities around the world grounded the 737 MAX series. The appropriate action was a "stabilizer trim cutout" and then fly the aircraft manually back to the airport with one hand on the controls the other on the trim wheel. The question is, would there be enough demand overall to continue the production of either line? Many of the other airlines flying the 737, also have A320's (and it's variants) in their fleets already. We all know what happened, but only because there was a disaster. As a Chief Technical Pilot you will perform as a chief technical consultant on the 747. , FAA Says The announcement Wednesday afternoon follows decisions by many other countries to ground the planes in the wake of Sunday's deadly. To be fair, flying isn't his primary job. What does a 737 Max pilot think. aviation regulators are increasingly convinced they don't need to mandate new simulator training for pilots of Boeing Co. Early Saturday morning, Capt. An airline pilot with 737 MAX-8 flying experience who wished to remain anonymous explained to AOPA that the new augmentation system affected the stabilizer trim but noted several ways to defeat it. 737 Max pilots 'had 40 seconds to recover aircraft' During flight simulations recreating the problems with the doomed Lion Air 737Max, pilots discovered that they had less than 40 seconds to override an automated system and avert disaster. FAA to Re-certify 737 MAX. Several pilots made at least five complaints about Boeing 737 Max 8 planes in the months leading up to Sunday's deadly Ethiopian Airlines crash, the second crash of a Boeing 737 Max 8 in recent. Real World Aviation. But here in this forum, we are able to learn more. or, put differently: Icelandair made the announcement, that it would be terminating 45 of its 737 MAX pilots, during a training session. Finally, a well written (by a pilot) article about 3rd world pilots and the 737 Max. Pilots for two U. For unexplained reasons—probably because the pilots were overwhelmed trying to deal with the runaway trim—the flight director, power setting, and. Several Pilots repeatedly warned federal authorities of safety concerns over the now-grounded Boeing 737 Max 8 for months leading up to the second deadly disaster involving the plane, according to an investigation by the Dallas Morning News. The pilots of the Ethiopian Airlines 737 MAX that crashed last month appear to have followed the emergency procedure laid out by both Boeing and the Federal Aviation Administration — cutting off the suspect flight-control system — but could not regain control and avert the plunge that killed all 157 on board. In a transcript of instant messages between two employees, the 737 Max's then chief technical pilot, Mark Forkner, said the so-called MCAS anti-stall system in the airplane was "running rampant. Southwest, which uses the 737 Max planes. After two Boeing 737 MAX 8 aircraft crashed in October 2018 and March 2019 causing 346 deaths, aviation authorities around the world grounded the 737 MAX series. damn, that is quite the explanation from Aboulafia. O states pilots lost major revenue when the FAA determined all 737 Max airplanes were to be grounded. Boeing's 737 Max jet won't fly again until regulators, politicians and airlines have their say. Neither AA nor WN are pulling the Max 8 and their pilots have no hesitation flying them, but their pilots have been fully recertified with the new EAD for the Max 8 since the end of January - but the 737-700 is a much older and different aircraft. Since the Indonesia crash, Boeing has been working on a software update for the 737 Max jets, expected by April. We all know what happened, but only because there was a disaster. Pilots for two U. I agree that statements that the 737 MAX is "unstable" without MCAS are not justified. In turn making it more comfortable for the pilot to fly the aircraft. The pilots of the Ethiopian Airlines 737 MAX that crashed last month appear to have followed the emergency procedure laid out by both Boeing and the Federal Aviation Administration — cutting off the suspect flight-control system — but could not regain control and avert the plunge that killed all 157 on board. Yes, that's true. When the airplane is close to in-trim, as you would be throughout a normal flight, the wheel is easily moved by the pilot-flying (PF) using the fold-out. Boeing has faced accusations that it failed to properly inform pilots and airlines of the MCAS anti-stall controls, which are new to the 737 MAX, added to deal with the risk that its larger. The US-based plane maker Boeing was hit with a class-action lawsuit filed Friday, seeking millions of dollars in damages in favor of over 400 pilots trained to fly the 737 MAX, ABC News report says. HYSTERICAL SHRIEKING: In related news, the lead test pilot for the 737 Max claims to "suck at flying". Doomed 737 MAX's Pilots Apparently Followed Boeing's Emergency Directions and he is backed up by extracts from a 1982 Boeing 737-200 Pilot Training Manual posted to an online pilot forum a. Southwest, which uses the 737 Max planes. Figure 3: 737 MAX Primary Flight Display. Presumably you have the knowledge from having flown the Max to put things into a proper perspective. If pilots approve of the changes, Boeing will use the data to seek FAA recertification. Several Boeing 737 Max 8 pilots in U. Then in late June FAA pilots uncovered a data processing issue impacting their ability to perform the procedure for counteracting "runaway stabiliser. What will be interesting to know is the amount of time he had on the MAX. Graver, it was news to the Pilots flying the MAX since 18 months as well. Indonesian investigators found sweeping problems and missteps in connection with last year's fatal Lion Air crash, including design flaws in Boeing Co. The Lion Air accident can prove otherwise. The pilots of the Ethiopian Airlines 737 MAX that crashed last His scenario is backed up by extracts from a 1982 Boeing 737-200 Pilot Training Manual posted to an online pilot forum a month. That timeframe is later than the hopes of Boeing, but perhaps. The background to Boeing's 737 MAX. All 737 MAX airplanes are made in Renton but until the FAA is satisfied with a fix to allow the planes to fly again, Boeing needs to park the planes, ready for delivery, around the Puget Sound. All aboard were killed. FAA to Re-certify 737 MAX. That was the latest news on German TV. Mike Michaelis, chairman of the safety committee of the Allied Pilots Association (APA) at American Airlines, sent out a message to pilots informing them of details Boeing had shared with the airline about this new 737 MAX system — called MCAS (Maneuvering Characteristics Augmentation System). The appropriate action was a "stabilizer trim cutout" and then fly the aircraft manually back to the airport with one hand on the controls the other on the trim wheel. This is the second crash of a brand-new 737 Max 8 in six months. Watch the elegance and power of Boeing's 737 MAX as it maneuvers through the air for this incredible air to air video shoot. LE BOURGET, France—Efforts to get Boeing Co. Autopilot mode uses code/software to fly the plane. Pilots also said having the autopilot engaged cause the plane to behave erratically. Boeing is recruiting pilots to test the 737 Max. You don't spend your first 200 hours learning in jets anywhere on earth except some militaries. The text messages, reviewed by the New York Times, show that the lead technical pilot for the plane. 737 Max pilots 'had 40 seconds to recover aircraft' During flight simulations recreating the problems with the doomed Lion Air 737Max, pilots discovered that they had less than 40 seconds to override an automated system and avert disaster. Since the Indonesia crash, Boeing has been working on a software update for the 737 Max jets, expected by April. The fallout from the crashes reveals a potentially too-cozy relationship between Boeing and the FAA when it came to certification of the Max and its new fly-by-wire Maneuvering. The theory suspected by U. "I am left to wonder: What else don't I know?" one pilot wrote in a complaint about the Boeing 737 Max 8 before the FAA grounded the jets on Wednesday (NBC News) — Several American pilots submitted complaints about the Boeing 737 Max aircraft months before the same model crashed in Ethiopia on Sunday, killing 157 people. The pilot will always be able to override the flight control law using electric trim or manual trim. Southwest Airlines' pilots are saying that the 737 MAX could, but not definitively, remain grounded with the airline until March, 2020. The pilot who shared the scenario said he learned the roller coaster procedure from excerpts of a 737-200 manual posted in an online pilot forum in the wake of the MAX accidents. An airline pilot with 737 MAX-8 flying experience who wished to remain anonymous explained to AOPA that the new augmentation system affected the stabilizer trim but noted several ways to defeat it. The 737 MAX concerned pilots well before the crash in Ethiopia. Plane goes to full power and the pilot can hold full aft stick and she'll climb out at Max AoA. 's 737 MAX jetliners back in the air have been delayed in part by concerns about whether the average pilot has enough physical strength to turn a manual crank in extreme emergencies. Icelandair made the announcement that it would be terminating 45 of its 737 MAX pilots during a training session. And with the 'conversion' from some earlier 737 types to 737 max being as simple and CHEAP as possible, little more than a session on an iPad according to one pilot, with no simulator time 'required' being one of Boeing's main selling points, just how many pilots would have trained on a 737 Max specific simulator anyway?. My first thought was that anti-stall system. Trump says FAA will ground Boeing 737 Max 8, 737 Max 9 planes following deadly Ethiopian Airlines crash. 737-300 Econ, Max Angle, Max Rate & One Eng Inop Climb TheAirlinePilots. Boeing officialy approved this. The pilot's inability, for whatever reason, to action the correct checklist is the reason why they weren't able to handle the emergency and land safely. 90 seconds after takeoff, ET302 was at 360KIAS. The plane, a Boeing 737-800MAX with flight number ET 302, lost contact soon after taking off at 08:38 am local time from Bole International Airport in the Ethiopian capital, the airline said in a statement. Seems very eerily similar to the Lion Air crash. But then again the 737 Max also sucks at flying, so maybe he's the right guy for the job. The grounding of the 737 MAX is one thing that is truly beyond the control of AA. Jon Weaks. The text messages, reviewed by the New York Times, show that the lead technical pilot for the plane. The word "kludge" keeps coming up when pilots and engineers discuss Boeing's 737 Max. Given that American Airlines owns twentyfour 737 Max 8, that seems like a certain percentage. This fix made be to resolve a processing speed issue. The 737 MAX concerned pilots well before the crash in Ethiopia. I'm sure its probably been discussed at nauseam, but is the MAX upgrade to the 737 enough to warrant PMDG to deploy resources to develop a MAX? All this talk about the MAX in the news recently got me wishing I could transition out of the NGX and into an MAXX. Forums Airline Forums It's going to take a while to run pilots thru the. In 2012, veteran test pilot Ray Craig testing high-speed situations in a simulator in the early days of 737 MAX development, detected problems with the 737 MAX in certain high-speed cases. Southwest Airlines pilots don't expect Boeing 737 Max back until February "The Boeing 737 Max won't return to service at Southwest Airlines until February at the earliest, the union that represents the airline's pilots said Monday. And at least that's what I've heard, more than only 3 or 5 jet pilots in America wonder if they again can trust a 737 Max. On Monday Oct. Those simulators need to be certified as well! I would be surprised if anybody is willing or capable of putting a 737 MAX into the air without all modifications and crew properly trained. A Boeing pilot working on the 737 MAX said in messages from 2016 that a new automated system was making the plane difficult to control in flight simulators, more than two years before it was grounded following two deadly crashes. Search this forum only. As the Lion Air crew fought to control their diving Boeing Co. It is not taught at his airline. I suspect that will change for reasons such as pilot unions, other national regulatory agencies, even customer airlines themselves demanding proper simulator training. of thrust available from engines mounted well below the center of gravity, there is pronounced thrust-versus-pitch coupling at low speeds, especially with aft center of gravity (CG) and at light gross weights. "I am left to wonder: What else don't I know?" one pilot wrote in a complaint about the Boeing 737 Max 8 before the FAA grounded the jets on Wednesday (NBC News) — Several American pilots submitted complaints about the Boeing 737 Max aircraft months before the same model crashed in Ethiopia on Sunday, killing 157 people. Most pilots fly 100 hours a month! You're right, I probably should have said mostly on jets. zeke wrote:7BOEING7 wrote:It wasn't put in the FCOM because it was expected that most 737MAX pilots would never be in a position to see it function, ever!!! Most airline pilots will never see an engine failure either, or for that matter the majority of the procedures in FCOM. In the claim, AAL. The agency specifically scrutinized the evaluation process for the Boeing 737 Max's Maneuvering Characteristics Augmentation System (MCAS), a critical system at the center of two catastrophic crashes that left more than 300 people dead. Trump says FAA will ground Boeing 737 Max 8, 737 Max 9 planes following deadly Ethiopian Airlines crash. ADDIS ABABA/WASHINGTON (BLOOMBERG) - An Ethiopian Airlines pilot told senior managers at the carrier months before one of its Boeing 737 Max jets crashed that more training and better. HYSTERICAL SHRIEKING: In related news, the lead test pilot for the 737 Max claims to "suck at flying". 1 describes what is required for differences training on a separate variant of an aircraft type based on what "level" of differences the FAA deems the new variant to have. " He says pilots are comfortable with it, or "it. Have since progressed to the gold standard of aircraft that tries to keep the pilots out of the loop: A320. A troubling new report from Politico reveals that flight crews filed at least five separate reports with the FAA, complaining about issues with the controls of Boeing 737 MAX 8 aircraft. The American Airlines pilots union demanded to know why Boeing didn't inform it about a flight control system that's now under. The existence of the messages strike at a central part of Boeing's defense over how the plane was certified to fly. US Pilots Reported Problems With Boeing 737 MAX AFP Forum / 12:14 AM March 16, 2019 At least four US pilots filed reports following the October crash of a Lion Air flight in Indonesia shortly after takeoff and all complained the aircraft suddenly pitched downward, according to documents reviewed by AFP on a flight safety database. Pilots need to be trained on MCAS which will means there need to be simulators available. Neither AA nor WN are pulling the Max 8 and their pilots have no hesitation flying them, but their pilots have been fully recertified with the new EAD for the Max 8 since the end of January - but the 737-700 is a much older and different aircraft. ADDIS ABABA/WASHINGTON (BLOOMBERG) - An Ethiopian Airlines pilot told senior managers at the carrier months before one of its Boeing 737 Max jets crashed that more training and better. "I am left to wonder: What else don't I know?" one pilot wrote in a complaint about the Boeing 737 Max 8 before the FAA grounded the jets on Wednesday (NBC News) — Several American pilots submitted complaints about the Boeing 737 Max aircraft months before the same model crashed in Ethiopia on Sunday, killing 157 people. The pilots of the Ethiopian Airlines 737 MAX that crashed last His scenario is backed up by extracts from a 1982 Boeing 737-200 Pilot Training Manual posted to an online pilot forum a month. The Federal Aviation Administration had for days. The pilot's inability, for whatever reason, to action the correct checklist is the reason why they weren't able to handle the emergency and land safely. The 737 MAX concerned pilots well before the crash in Ethiopia. They told authorities about control issues, and were confused about its systems. "Normal" means the pilot can control the plane. July 1, 2019. While it should not come as a surprise following news that a grand jury subpoena - which listed the Justice Department's criminal division listed as a contact - had been sent to Boeing and the FAA, scrutinizing the development of Boeing 737 MAX jetliners and in particular whether corners had been cut with its anti-stall (MCAS) system, moments ago Boeing stuck tumbled when the Seattle Times. What did 737 MAX pilots know, and when did they know it? That's become a subject of debate in the wake of last month's fatal Lion Air crash. To accomplish this, pilots of all experience levels are invited to apply. ADDIS ABABA/WASHINGTON (BLOOMBERG) - An Ethiopian Airlines pilot told senior managers at the carrier months before one of its Boeing 737 Max jets crashed that more training and better. Southwest Airlines' pilots are saying that the 737 MAX could, but not definitively, remain grounded with the airline until March, 2020. Feedback Forum Consumer Southwest pilots sue Boeing over lost wages in 737 MAX grounding The lawsuit alleges the Southwest pilots agreed to fly the 737 MAX because Boeing said it was. Two months later, I still have not received any compensation nor have I gotten any answers from Westjet about how and why they put their passengers in such a dangerous aircraft. 737-300 Econ, Max Angle, Max Rate & One Eng Inop Climb TheAirlinePilots. So these pilots do a flyby, power at idle, waiting for the alpha floor to. On the other hand, this month, CEO Dennis Muilenburg asked the board "to establish a committee to review our company-wide policies and processes for the design and development of the airplanes we build," and somehow, as Ron Epstein noted, they. The US-based plane maker Boeing was hit with a class-action lawsuit filed Friday, seeking millions of dollars in damages in favor of over 400 pilots trained to fly the 737 MAX, ABC News report says. The pilot, Mark Forkner, complained that the system known as MCAS was causing him trouble. If you land a defective plane and don't fix it, Lion, the next pilot is flying a defective plane, not from the factory, but from local damage. Further, the watchdog found FAA officials' responses to. damn, that is quite the explanation from Aboulafia. US Pilots Reported Problems With Boeing 737 MAX AFP Forum / 12:14 AM March 16, 2019 At least four US pilots filed reports following the October crash of a Lion Air flight in Indonesia shortly after takeoff and all complained the aircraft suddenly pitched downward, according to documents reviewed by AFP on a flight safety database. But another group holds the key to a successful relaunch. but I'm right there with you. Boeing's 737 Max jet won't fly again until regulators, politicians and airlines have their say. President Trump announced that the United States was grounding Boeing's 737 Max aircraft, reversing an earlier decision by American regulators to keep the jets flying in the wake of a second deadly crash involving one of the jets in Ethiopia. According to an Aviation article, "Ethiopian MAX Crash Simulator Scenario Stuns Pilots," current 737 MAX pilots, as part of a recurrent training simulator, attempted to emulate the same. Jon Weaks. When the airplane is close to in-trim, as you would be throughout a normal flight, the wheel is easily moved by the pilot-flying (PF) using the fold-out. To accomplish this, pilots of all experience levels are invited to apply. I agree that statements that the 737 MAX is "unstable" without MCAS are not justified. On the other hand, this month, CEO Dennis Muilenburg asked the board "to establish a committee to review our company-wide policies and processes for the design and development of the airplanes we build," and somehow, as Ron Epstein noted, they. My understanding from reading comments from pilots who fly the Max aircraft on another site is that the larger and heavier engines on the Max planes sit further forward on the wing, and there was concern about stall risk increasing, so Boeing added an automated system that would force the nose down when the plane sensed a stall was imminent. Graver, it was news to the Pilots flying the MAX since 18 months as well. Max death 737: FAA asks Boeing why it hid test pilot's discovery of 'egregious' 737 Max issues Discussion in 'Current Events' started by Denizen, Oct 18, 2019. All aboard were killed. com is a resource of information to the airline pilots and provides a forum to share. 737 pilots are trained to disable the stability trim system in a runaway trim situation. My personal opinion, based upon my observations having been paired with third world pilots in the simulator, is that had this happened to any US airline crew it would have been a non-event. Test Pilots for the Boeing 737 Max. And with the 'conversion' from some earlier 737 types to 737 max being as simple and CHEAP as possible, little more than a session on an iPad according to one pilot, with no simulator time 'required' being one of Boeing's main selling points, just how many pilots would have trained on a 737 Max specific simulator anyway?. Boeing 737 Max review finds FAA and Boeing failures. This is the second crash of a brand-new 737 Max 8 in six months. Boeing's 737 MAX Flight Crew Operations Manual (FCOM) already outlines an existing procedure to safely handle the unlikely event of erroneous data coming from an angle of attack (AOA) sensor. Is this pilots report from back in early 2017, referring to the MCAS control? "with as much as 58,000 lb. It is going to be a while, do not hold your breath! Jeroen. You don't spend your first 200 hours learning in jets anywhere on earth except some militaries. Given that American Airlines owns twentyfour 737 Max 8, that seems like a certain percentage. Watch the elegance and power of Boeing's 737 MAX as it maneuvers through the air for this incredible air to air video shoot. What does a 737 Max pilot think. No big deal. Ok, there is one point no one is talking about. Real World Aviation. A great piece of journalism by ba former pilot who turned to. Two fatal crashes of Boeing 737 Max airplanes within five months took the lives of 346 people and grounded the fleet. And with the 'conversion' from some earlier 737 types to 737 max being as simple and CHEAP as possible, little more than a session on an iPad according to one pilot, with no simulator time 'required' being one of Boeing's main selling points, just how many pilots would have trained on a 737 Max specific simulator anyway?. The theory suspected by U. Airline pilots will play a critical role.